Jan.2.2010 at 8:11 pm | joshua
I am Batman
I feel like I live in two different worlds.
I grew up catholic, the first fourteen-ish years of my life were spent with my butt planted on a horribly uncomfortable wooden pew, imagining myself anywhere else than listening to whatever the priest had to say. Even though I grew up in church, I never paid attention and I really could have cared less. Then, as soon as my parents started giving me the option to not go, I stopped going to church. I walked ran away from it as fast as I could, and didn’t turn back.
Then about six years ago, I started going to church again. This time a non-denominational church that met me where I was, and brought me up in a way I needed. I found my faith, and I’ve been happily living in it ever since. Now, I’m probably not what most would consider a proto-typical Christian, especially when considering I’ve spent the last six years working in a church. Still, I read my Bible, I go to Church (twice) every weekend, I listen to a few Christian teacher’s podcasts, I watch my second church-home’s live services almost every weekend (Table Rock Fellowship), I pray, I take communion, I tithe, I give my time, etc…
but…
I’d rather read a book by Donald Miller or Rick McKinley or Rob Bell or Mark Driscoll than read my Bible.
When I go to church, I rarely listen to the message. Instead, I’m generally working.
If the podcast doesn’t catch my attention in the first five minutes, I’m out.
I haven’t been tuning in to TRF nearly as often anymore.
I pray, but often times wonder if any one is listening.
I take communion, but my mind often wanders to how bad it tastes.
I tithe mostly to a non-profit organization.
I give my time no where near as much as I should
and…
I swear.
I drink.
I watch R rated movies, and like them more than PG movies.
I listen to rap.
I don’t boycott things.
I lie.
I’m selfish.
I voted for Obama.
finally…
…with very little exception, I’d almost always rather spend my free time with non-Christians.
Wait, what?!
I have some great Christian friends… and I love spending time with them. Some of the conversations we get in are amazing. I would consider these my closest of friends. Now, there are some other Christians I know who are also decent enough to spend time with, but I’ve found over the last seven years that more often than not I feel uncomfortable around other Christians. Almost as if I’m not “holy” enough. I feel inadequate, whether it’s my inability to spout off random Bible verses at will, or defend my faith or Kirk Cameron. I would hope however, that my Christian friends would look at me and see a guy who’s creative, willing to do anything short of sin to reach people, and relentless in pursuing something greater than wherever I’m currently at.
So I find myself feeling more comfortable with the people I spent the entirety of my first 21 years on earth with. I’m ok with admitting that. Even though sometimes I feel inadequate around my non-Christian friends, if simply because I’m a Christian and they’re not. But almost always, it passes quickly when the non-Christians I’m with realize that I’m not “one of those kind” of Christians. I would hope that my non-Christian friends would look at me and see a guy who’s creative, intelligent, loving, willing to do whatever it takes to help others, and relentless in pursuing something greater than wherever I’m currently at.
But what does that say about me? Am I straddling a fence, unable to push myself over to one side completely? Is it possible to be a friend to non-Christians, and as a Christian not always having their salvation on my mind? Because frankly, the last thing I want to do with most of my non-Christian friends is talk about the Bible with them.
I don’t have the answers, I am merely asking some questions. The closest thing I have to an answer is that maybe I should just stop worrying so much about trying to confine people into stereo-typical labels, and hope they can do the same for me.
I've often used the phrase, "you know me", as a funny way to explain away some odd little quality of mine. In this case it is very appropriate, in the sense that, you have described exactly how I feel most of the time. I haven't been going to church as regular as I should. I haven't been praying nearly enough. And, as you said, most of the time I would rather hang out with my "non-believer" friends.
Am I "christian" enough, or am I one of these luke-warm believers who will someday stand before Jesus and He will say to me, "I never knew you"? What exactly is "Christian enough"? I don't think that it exists.
When you find out the answers, be sure to let me know. I am as confused by this as I have ever been. Comforting to know that I'm not the only one.
That whole luke-warm thing is my biggest fear too. I just wonder if it's possible to love people, no matter what, without agenda.
What do I say? I feel a lot the same way as you, though I don't swear, I don't get drunk, I don't steal yada, yada, yada. I have very high moral standards, which were, in part, taught to me as a young Christian. I attend church every Sunday, go to Bible discussion groups once a week, and midweek on Wednesdays. Yet, I struggle to read my Bible and pray every day.
Largely, I think accountability is key. That leads us to the friends that we keep. If you are hanging around people that have the same goals as you, you are able to encourage each other to reach for those goals on a daily basis. This goes for Christian and non-Christian friends. If it is on your heart to do more and be more for God, then I think you need to find Christian friends that you really LOVE hanging out with who can spur you on, as it says in Heb. 10:24. Keep in mind – the spurring is not always pleasant. A friend loves at all times, a brother (or sister) is born out of adversity.
Now, I'm just going to take my own advice and deepen my friendships.
I think you're pretty right here Jenean. I do have Christian friends that I love dearly and I love spending time with, so that's not a concern for me. Distance is an issue, but not unsurmountable. Like I said to Gregg though, I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to live a life without agenda and still make a difference (when it comes to relationships).
Is it ok to not always want to save my non-christian friends?
My opinion. You're feeling you need to be one or the other, instead of just you, being you, in the midst of all of it.
You've made a huge move. Your identity has changed. Routines have changed. Life has changed. Your learning to be yourself in the midst of everything new.
Lukewarm is one thing. But, your heart determines who you are. Your actions then determine the standards you set, to keep you…you…
I do want to say however, that I feel very much like I understand your thoughts here. I hope my comment isnt taken as an answer, but more an observance :)
Yeah I understand, and I think you're right. Life has changed drastically this past year, and it's a lot to keep up with.
I'm right there with you. Many of the things in the "but" section and a fair amount in the "and" section apply to me as well. I feel every day like I'm not holy enough, and I struggle to not count the good actions and weigh them against the bad to see how I've done today.
You're not on the road by yourself my friend. Maybe Brent's observance was pretty accurate.
Well, I hope you don't mind what could turn out to be a long response to a somewhat long post. The only thing I can do is bring my experience to the table (I'll be hitting the big 4-0 in 2010) and tell you what I can. I will offer no judgment of any kind but just offer advice where I think it may be applicable.
Let's start with the 'but' list first. There's nothing there out of the ordinary. I'd rather read books and magazines than the Bible as well. My Bible reading at times is pathetic. There have easily been times when it would sit there from one Sunday to the next. The thing is, we shouldn't read the Bible because we have to or should but because we want to. It's when we want to consume God's word that Bible reading becomes that much easier. If you haven't read it, check out Francis Chan's 'Crazy Love.' As for prayer, feeling as though nobody is listening is common. Here's the thing: God hears and answers all of our prayers. He just sometimes doesn't give us the answer we want. He often says "No" as an answer and we often translate that into what you said: not listening.
For your 'and' list, there's nothing there that is surprising. I curse. I try not to in the sense that I don't want my language peppered with f-bombs and other curse words. It shouldn't be part of everyday conversation in my view, but it will happen. You said you drink. So do I. I like beer, wine and scotch. What I don't do is get drunk. R rated movies? My favorite movies include The Godfather I & II and Pulp Fiction. I listen to rap too. Boycotts are useless and often suggested by the party that is looking to draw attention to it. Everybody lies. Everybody is selfish. Who we vote for means nothing in the context of our spiritual life.
As for your friends, I remember hearing a preacher one time say, "People wonder if they become Christ followers if they should leave their old friends. You won't have to because chances are some will leave you." Here's the thing: There should be no agenda when we're with our friends whether they're Christ followers or not beyond simply loving them as Christ said we should and being transparent. When we do that, there are going to be times when God opens that door when we're with our non-Christian friends to talk about what Christ has done in our lives and when that happens, we should take that opportunity.
One last thing. You're still young. I don't mean that in a, "You're young so you don't know what you're talking about" sort of way, but in a Donald Miller "You still have plenty of stories to write" kind of way. Plus you're going to be a father so as the next 10 years go by, so many new and different things will happen that you could possibly be thinking on a whole different level by that point.
Well, I don't know if any of what I wrote helps. I hope it does.
Love it! Great thoughts here Jay.
There are always areas in which our Christian walks could be improved, always. I don't mean that as an excuse either, as we are called to pursue holiness (spot the person who was raised in a Nazarene church!), but the fact remains – honesty isn't lukewarmness.
I don't think so, anyway.
What is so bad about being a Christian? I'll tell you what is so bad about it… the world thinks it is stupid. And that is it.
It is hard being around non-belivers because we admire that freedom of not caring about pleasing God. We want it so bad, and we know how comforting it is to not care. Problem is, we also know what it does to us.
We were promised that if we accept an idea, and TRY to live a life the best way we can that reflects on the heart and soul of that idea – we will be rewarded something so amazing that it we just can't wrap our minds around it. Key word – TRY. The best part is that all we have to do is accept the idea.
If it turns out that we are wrong and this whole God and Christian thing was just a big "waste of time" then hey, at least we lived our lives the best way we knew how. We built strong character, and prevented a lot of bad things from happening to us along the way. This was just the direction we chose to take.
I love your thoughts here Jordan. I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with being a Christian, it's changed my life and I am forever grateful for the endless grace and mercy I've been given. Lord knows I need it =)
I've writte and re-written my comments here three times, never feeling overly comfortable with what was coming out. First, the struggle of living between two worlds is a struggle of the Christian life. It is simply part of our identity until the kingdom comes in its fullness. Aliens here, praying for more of heaven to invade this entropy ridden orbiting ball of sin that God has gone to desperate lengths to redeem in Christ.
Second, I'd say that if you're finding it challenging to crucify the flesh and live in the Spirit, I say welcome to the club. However, we must be careful not to make it about a list of do's or don'ts but about a dynamic and very real relationship with God through the Spirit. Turn the tables on it and ask yourself if you had stopped talking to your wife so much or engaging with her, if just spending time with her is enough or if you'd need to engage her in dialogue and not only just change behavior, but ask yourself why you drifted in the first place and let the gospel do its work there, rather than just on the exterior.
Finally, I would say that you always have an agenda. We all do. All the time. What is the agenda is the question. Christ said he came to seek and to save the lost. He did so in the form of a servant. He did so to reconcile the world to the Father. So, if you follow Jesus this is now your agenda. If you're not actively participating in that agenda, just don't fool yourself into thinking it's agenda-less. It's just an agenda that has a different trajectory.
Well, those (I think) are my comments. Love your heart and openness and gonna pray for you right….NOW>>>>
Also, hope none of that came across as preaching at you, as I completely share the same struggles and experiences.
It didn't come across as preaching at all. I value your thoughts here, which is why I told you to keep trying after it messed up the first time, I knew you'd bring it =)
I love how you compared it to a marriage, that's some serious food for thought.
Okay Mr. Awesomesauce~ here goes nothing…I'm kinda with Jay on this one and kinda with Jordan, too. I have found in the past couple of years that its ok to not be perfect. Its okay to be you. Its ok to hang with folks who aren't "Christians". In fact, if you don't hang with these folks, how are you to be an example to them and lead them to Christ.
I can't remember scripture references off the top of my head, and I admit I don't read the bible as I should, but one thing I do know is that we are called to be the hands and feet of Christ, and that its about what your heart intends. Christ was hanging out with the lepers and the woman at the well. NOT in the temple with the pharisees & the sadducees. Aaaand ALOT of the *Christians* I know are more concerned with appearances or what other people are doing,(i.e.judging their peers) than getting their hands dirty helping another person out.
So having said all that, I'd prefer to be referred to as a "follower of Christ" than a *Christian* and get my hands dirty any day with friends like you:). Peace, love & JOY!
sums up why i quit my cushy ministry job. and i like working at starbucks with non christians way more than i enjoyed working with pharisees in church walls. I feel like that is where i can be me and not caught up in the drama of being "perfect" for all of those around me…i have found the people outside the church walls to be a lot more accepting and loving than those inside….and i could be saying this right now cause i am jaded. but i am working on healing.
Are you feeling voters remorse Josh? Would you rather have a President McCain and VP Palin?
uh… no? out of that whole post, that's what you focused in on?! haha. no, it was merely a reference to a largely held christian belief that you can't be a christian democrat, or heck, even an independent =)
I'm not typically a spiritual person but I am an Obama supporter. I just thought it was odd lol
Yes typically people get stuck on a few particular hot button issues and won't vote the other side.
I'm sorry I don't have much spiritual advice for you. Everyone's journey is different. I personally feel that I don't know what the answers are. There is really no way for me to know for sure. I just try to be the best person I can be morally. If that's not acceptable than so be it. I did my best without the dogma.
You are blessed in that you still have friends that ARE non-Christians. That is one of the sad side-effects for many of us when we become Christians – suddenly the only people we hang out with are Christians. What kind of impact can our lives have if we never have any relationship with those who don't know Christ? I can honestly say that I (unfortunately) have very few friends that don't know Christ… and I have no idea where to go to build those kinds of relationships.
As for the rest… I have no issue with drinking – in moderation. I believe the bible says that we are to avoid drunkenness. I have many similar issues you have – I like R-rated movies, I am addicted to books that have NOTHING to o with God (but vampires and sci/fi fantasy? oh yes!), and quite frankly, I nearly lothe most "Christian" music. gag. Give me some radiohead or within temptation or delirium any day over tomlin or baloche.
Bloom where you are planted, as the old saying goes. Let God use you by just being YOU with everyone you are with. The little differences in your life that are there because of God will show them that there IS a difference. Let your life be your testimony and just be friends without having an agenda.
Amen! Love this!
With ya in the "but" and "and" and wish I had more of the "finally". I like what Tom Saben said last week "Jesus obliterated his reputation to show compassion." –examples peppered throughout the Gospels–